Forgive ? Who should I forgive for the loss of my healthy 56 year old daughter to a massive stroke after a jab of this poison ? WHO DO I FORGIVE ?
Punishment is not what I desire although the idea of a few people I could name swinging from the end of a rope gives me more pleasure that I am comfortable with, I know that's not the answer. This must never be allowed to happen again. That is the answer. When gov'ts and society change enough to make this never again a possibility, then maybe I could begin to forgive . Maybe.
You are spot-on; forgiveness is an individual decision. And that is my point, more than our individual choice to forgive or not, "this must never be allowed to happen again."
Right now, the sad truth is that we have learned little. Few know how many the vaccines have harmed and when the next pandemic rolls around, the same voices for mandates will be as shrill.
We forgive human ignorance, the lust for power and the fear of others, different than ourselves, that we allow our egos to manifest.
Human ignorance in this case is not a valid excuse. I am far from computer literate and yet in the early days of this fiasco I could research enough to know this was all a lie. If i could, why couldn't others like the medical profession , the media, gov't officials etc, have seen through this? They still are perpetuating the lies. Forgiveness comes after accountability. I am aware of how often I have made mistakes in my life. I have learned from those mistakes and have learned to forgive myself for being human and have taken what steps I can/could to rectify whatever damage I did. I'm very aware of how the evil within is projected outward and all of us as humans carry that evil usually in equal measure with the good. I don't feel any animosity toward friends and family who ridiculed me and my beliefs. They were not thinking straight. Most of them have since allowed their eyes to open for which I am most grateful. They were the victims of the fear porn so pervasive for the past three years. They I can forgive and do although none of them has said "I'm sorry " to me. Sorry for the death of my daughter, but no acknowledgment that I was correct in my views.
I continue in my meditations to send love throughout the Universe. If by chance they, Schwab, Gates, Trudeau, Faucci etc. benefit form that all the better . Maybe I'll live long enough to see some remorse from them but I very much doubt it.
I'm not trying to present myself as holier than thou or smarter than anyone else.
How do we show people the concept of owning their own evil and stop projecting it out onto society ? If enough people could learn that , we could stop those afore mentioned in their tracks.
Politely disagree... First, I'm fer "makin' things right" which is not about forgiveness... but mebbe more about the scales'o justice. NO dok-turd that gave jabs--that forced'em on patients or ousted patients that wouldn't take'em should be allowed to practice med-sin. EVER again.
Their do-no-harm oath was down the terlet... I know this in my own "fambly"--"God complex" among the dok-turds who would not even look at a single study I sent'em, their faith in the See-DC was astoundin'. Nope, I was deemed a know-nuthin' (cuz I ain't gotta meddycal degree...) and now my girls only grandparent (my ma) has a half-paralyzed face and has no idear what day it is. Wuz fine 'fore the plandemic. Thank ye kindly pompous dok-turd step-vater mit a god-complex. Ain't feelin' gen'rous towards such ego-maniacle humans!
What'll they do fer work if they can't practice med-sin any more? Retire, mebbe. But otherwise, who the heck cares? Many've us are in JUST that same capsized boat an' we all gotta find a raft! My own hubby lost HIS job from a place he'd worked at 20+ years fer not takin' the jabs (and mind ye, he did no-buddy any harm...)...given that our own "fambly" is po' as churchmice (er' temple mice!) thanks to this mess.. I think it's some small amount've "makin' things right" that those that INFLICTED physical harm in the name'a "med-sin" should not be allowed to continue in their profess'ins.
Not sure about all the non-medi-cul biz-messes that banned us unjabbered folks (few but some rebelled and good on them!). I never 'magined that in AmeriKa (what it IS now) one'a my daughters and I'd be CHASED outta second hand store fer not maskin' up "proper" like we wuz rabid dogs--we got chased out by staff holdin' masks like they wuz tryin' to muzzle us! I'm sure them shopgirls and the guard an' manager gave each other high 5's fer havin' chased us "vermin" out.... What their fate should be, I dunno but I'm sure they're not feelin' regrets... so nu? we gotta fergive'em? Meanwhile our family could list many such demeanin' encounters... so not feelin' very charitable to these folks--sorry. There were some that DID resist... I ain't sayin' I'm "harborin' " negative feelin's for those who lacked humanity... but they ain't gettin' my good will either!
Havin' lost fambly historically to tzarist purges in Vilna and ta Nazi purges in WWII--we ain't inclined to feel "christian" forgiveness (it ain't our faith....THEIR atonement, if it ever comes, is not in our purview... much as it'd be nice to think at least some've'em had some regrets... I ain't bankin' on it!) Also, the fat laydee ain't sung yet--THIS war is not over! I've no doubt our lost re-pug-lick may be purgin' the unjabbed AGAIN 'fore long. So EVEN fer those feelin' gen'rust--wantin' to let bygones be bygones---I'd say wait up a bit cuz they're gonna rinse an' repeat...
As ta the idear that those've us not so inclined ta fergive won't learn... Nah, disagree. Many've us who ain't gonna fergiv' have larned pul-lenty! We've figgered out who our real friends, tried n' true, are!--whatever choices they made to git vaxxed 'er not... we've learned WAY more about our corrupt "covert-mint" than we ever imagined and much've it not good but it IS good we got ourselves far more informed! We larned MORE how to protect our own health and those 'round us that'll listen. An' some've us found new out-lids fer our thoughts--bein' banned unjabbered the-ate-her folks, makin' some lemonade via substack's a substa...toot!
I wrote on the topic a bit from our "ahrty" perspective...
Daisy, I love your post and thanks for the link to your longer heartfelt and important Substack version! Not witnessing the suffering of your family and others would be a mistake.
I hope this doesn't sound defensive but since the beginning of the crisis through my AIER essays, I have opposed all that you have opposed (often making Holocaust references in the process).
Everything you wrote and most of what I wrote, in this essay, can be true at the same time.
Thank you for this. While I totally agree that the wish to punish has no usefull place in a better society, nor does reform. If we leave the heirarchies and social systems in place that led to this then it will have been for nought.
I won't forget nor forgive. I won't keep any animosity either. I choose indifference. Let the sinners suffer the trouble they brought upon them. I was well aware of their sins since the beginning and so I protected myself best. I am okay.
I don't care about amnesty. But if you want to get serious about it, impel the jab maimed to demand justice. Because those are the ones who won't get out of it stronger. Those are in need of a supportive society. We, the "oppressed", are going to be okay, for we are the mavericks.
lol, wull it's plenty open to many includin' new friends in cyberspace and all human beans who didn't treat me and mine like cock-a-roaches... many've them are STILL on the jabs=good "animal farm" bandwagon... EVEN after all this time!
Thank'ya much Barry... and agreed-- I think the difference is that you're willin' to be more open-hearted to those "good people" that went along with it all... just that one element...whereas I'd like to see'em "make things right" at very least...in some way...constructive not destructive and certainly not Emily-Osterizer style...she offers NO apology or "make right" solution... just a ditsy "let bygones be.." I think she's savin' her own rear and the way she had her kids shout out to others was monstrous...I'd hate to see'em as adults....
As we know, many've the Nazis were "gut" family men... devoted husbands, loving "vaters".... eeeeee! Mob "good fellers" too... I know folks lose their humanity under fear but given that as many as 25% of our nay-shun stayed strong... didn't submit, didn't shun, didn't buy the cons... I know that 25% are bein' gaslit, ignored... but it's this 25% we need to support and worry less'bout fergivin' those that are singin' kumbaya amnesty songs...
If Plandemic 3.0 comes let's see how Miss Emily an' her minions bee-have (bee-hive).... eyes 'r watchin' as this sadly is not the end of these ongoin' plandemics...
Thanks, Daisy. I won't claim to be any more "open-hearted" than you. We could have written our respective essays with a closed or an open heart and you can't always tell from a distance.
To be sure, there are days my heart is closed. If my heart is closed, my point is, I can't be as responsive to the needs of the situation. In my work, I always try and point back to universal mindsets, so even if we can't change the outside today, we can change ourselves.
I don't sense a closed heart in your writing at all. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone.
Choosing between a personal right and wrong mind requires personal responsibility. Liberty and personal responsibility are two sides of the same coin. Most in the USA have closed their eyes and minds while flipping that coin into the States’ wishing fountain.
Yes. Thank you. I’ve read Frankl. The West coast Statue of Responsibility would be misconstrued as a public notice of required subservience to generous overlords, maybe.
I once heard that “success” is not getting what you want, it’s realizing what you don’t need.
You are an inspiration Dr. Brownstein. BTW, what were your thoughts when AIER inappropriately removed your piece regarding mandated flu vaccines? It was spot-on.
The AIER has been good to me and except for that flu essay there have been no issues. The flu essay was in the early days of the pandemic when pressures to not knock vaccines were especially strong. The decision was made by a good man who has shined through this crisis. Remember too that my critique of Warp Speed appeared very early in the pandemic at the AIER.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people ONLY grasp wrongdoing when they see people get punished. This is what must happen on a grand scale, to those who are responsible for this crime spree. No, it will not indefinitely prevent, by itself, authoritarian actions. But it will leave an indelible impression, for at least a generation or two.
Dave, "Grand scale?" Would you include the endless senior bureaucrats at the FDA and CDC? Or is it better to abolish the administrative state?
I'm not unsympathetic to your sentiment but there is a better way, I believe. And if you say we are not ready for the better way, then I'm afraid "all this will happen again."
Dave, And let's not overlook my point that the free market gives no amnesty. Curiously most libertarians and conservatives have said nothing about vaccine manufactures being not legally liable. For some reason this is a subsidy they seem to love. I've been considering this issue since 1983; back then for nuclear power; another favorite of some libertarians and conservatives.
I agree 100% with your point about the free market and amnesty.
Some libertarians and conservatives complain about the abuse of the liability laws. There may be a basis for these concerns, though with vaccines we have seen what happens when there is not enough liability. So we need sensible liability rules, here and elsewhere.
I think that the rule of law needs to apply. People who have committed crimes need to be held accountable. I would think that this would include some higher-ups at the FDA and the CDC who have committed fraud and whatnot.
I would love to see the FDA and the CDC, along with the rest of the administrative state, abolished, but that is not what I had in mind here. Punish the criminals, including those in industry and elsewhere. This will change public opinion drastically. And then let public opinion take over. If that means getting rid of the FDA and the CDC, then I would love to see it. If it means firing Emily Oster and not giving her outlet for her authoritarian views, that would be wonderful too.
I agree, Dave. For justice to occur, crimes must be punished. But for the last two decades we've seen numerous crimes by political elites that have gone unpunished. When I consider the numbers of these crimes, your term "grand scale" rightly characterizes the magnitude of the punishment that is warranted.
"Forgiveness is a mindset ... we have chosen not to harbor grievances."
This paragraph goes right to the heart of what is important. When we harbor grievances, we harm ourselves, and we tend to act in ways that harm others through a misfocusing of energy. It is easy to misunderstand what forgiveness means. It does not mean forgetting, or letting someone off the hook for righting a wrong, or turning a blind eye to ongoing injustice. It means only letting go of useless mental turmoil.
“We forgive… the fear of others different from ourselves” harkens back to Obama’s top-down (forced) multi-culturalism. Part of the basis for our God-given human liberty is the recognition that all people must be free to associate with others like-minded.
Forgive ? Who should I forgive for the loss of my healthy 56 year old daughter to a massive stroke after a jab of this poison ? WHO DO I FORGIVE ?
Punishment is not what I desire although the idea of a few people I could name swinging from the end of a rope gives me more pleasure that I am comfortable with, I know that's not the answer. This must never be allowed to happen again. That is the answer. When gov'ts and society change enough to make this never again a possibility, then maybe I could begin to forgive . Maybe.
Angelena, I am deeply sorry for your tragic loss.
You are spot-on; forgiveness is an individual decision. And that is my point, more than our individual choice to forgive or not, "this must never be allowed to happen again."
Right now, the sad truth is that we have learned little. Few know how many the vaccines have harmed and when the next pandemic rolls around, the same voices for mandates will be as shrill.
We forgive human ignorance, the lust for power and the fear of others, different than ourselves, that we allow our egos to manifest.
Human ignorance in this case is not a valid excuse. I am far from computer literate and yet in the early days of this fiasco I could research enough to know this was all a lie. If i could, why couldn't others like the medical profession , the media, gov't officials etc, have seen through this? They still are perpetuating the lies. Forgiveness comes after accountability. I am aware of how often I have made mistakes in my life. I have learned from those mistakes and have learned to forgive myself for being human and have taken what steps I can/could to rectify whatever damage I did. I'm very aware of how the evil within is projected outward and all of us as humans carry that evil usually in equal measure with the good. I don't feel any animosity toward friends and family who ridiculed me and my beliefs. They were not thinking straight. Most of them have since allowed their eyes to open for which I am most grateful. They were the victims of the fear porn so pervasive for the past three years. They I can forgive and do although none of them has said "I'm sorry " to me. Sorry for the death of my daughter, but no acknowledgment that I was correct in my views.
I continue in my meditations to send love throughout the Universe. If by chance they, Schwab, Gates, Trudeau, Faucci etc. benefit form that all the better . Maybe I'll live long enough to see some remorse from them but I very much doubt it.
I'm not trying to present myself as holier than thou or smarter than anyone else.
How do we show people the concept of owning their own evil and stop projecting it out onto society ? If enough people could learn that , we could stop those afore mentioned in their tracks.
Ignorance is a condition of human life.
I agree with you that projection is the problem behind all the visible problems. I write about projection and I speak about projection.
Politely disagree... First, I'm fer "makin' things right" which is not about forgiveness... but mebbe more about the scales'o justice. NO dok-turd that gave jabs--that forced'em on patients or ousted patients that wouldn't take'em should be allowed to practice med-sin. EVER again.
Their do-no-harm oath was down the terlet... I know this in my own "fambly"--"God complex" among the dok-turds who would not even look at a single study I sent'em, their faith in the See-DC was astoundin'. Nope, I was deemed a know-nuthin' (cuz I ain't gotta meddycal degree...) and now my girls only grandparent (my ma) has a half-paralyzed face and has no idear what day it is. Wuz fine 'fore the plandemic. Thank ye kindly pompous dok-turd step-vater mit a god-complex. Ain't feelin' gen'rous towards such ego-maniacle humans!
What'll they do fer work if they can't practice med-sin any more? Retire, mebbe. But otherwise, who the heck cares? Many've us are in JUST that same capsized boat an' we all gotta find a raft! My own hubby lost HIS job from a place he'd worked at 20+ years fer not takin' the jabs (and mind ye, he did no-buddy any harm...)...given that our own "fambly" is po' as churchmice (er' temple mice!) thanks to this mess.. I think it's some small amount've "makin' things right" that those that INFLICTED physical harm in the name'a "med-sin" should not be allowed to continue in their profess'ins.
Not sure about all the non-medi-cul biz-messes that banned us unjabbered folks (few but some rebelled and good on them!). I never 'magined that in AmeriKa (what it IS now) one'a my daughters and I'd be CHASED outta second hand store fer not maskin' up "proper" like we wuz rabid dogs--we got chased out by staff holdin' masks like they wuz tryin' to muzzle us! I'm sure them shopgirls and the guard an' manager gave each other high 5's fer havin' chased us "vermin" out.... What their fate should be, I dunno but I'm sure they're not feelin' regrets... so nu? we gotta fergive'em? Meanwhile our family could list many such demeanin' encounters... so not feelin' very charitable to these folks--sorry. There were some that DID resist... I ain't sayin' I'm "harborin' " negative feelin's for those who lacked humanity... but they ain't gettin' my good will either!
Havin' lost fambly historically to tzarist purges in Vilna and ta Nazi purges in WWII--we ain't inclined to feel "christian" forgiveness (it ain't our faith....THEIR atonement, if it ever comes, is not in our purview... much as it'd be nice to think at least some've'em had some regrets... I ain't bankin' on it!) Also, the fat laydee ain't sung yet--THIS war is not over! I've no doubt our lost re-pug-lick may be purgin' the unjabbed AGAIN 'fore long. So EVEN fer those feelin' gen'rust--wantin' to let bygones be bygones---I'd say wait up a bit cuz they're gonna rinse an' repeat...
As ta the idear that those've us not so inclined ta fergive won't learn... Nah, disagree. Many've us who ain't gonna fergiv' have larned pul-lenty! We've figgered out who our real friends, tried n' true, are!--whatever choices they made to git vaxxed 'er not... we've learned WAY more about our corrupt "covert-mint" than we ever imagined and much've it not good but it IS good we got ourselves far more informed! We larned MORE how to protect our own health and those 'round us that'll listen. An' some've us found new out-lids fer our thoughts--bein' banned unjabbered the-ate-her folks, makin' some lemonade via substack's a substa...toot!
I wrote on the topic a bit from our "ahrty" perspective...
https://thcsofdaisymoses.substack.com/p/forget-me-not-a-demand-from-the-banned
Anyways, I admire yer far more gen'rous scenty-mints and am always glad ta read yer stack!
Daisy, I love your post and thanks for the link to your longer heartfelt and important Substack version! Not witnessing the suffering of your family and others would be a mistake.
I hope this doesn't sound defensive but since the beginning of the crisis through my AIER essays, I have opposed all that you have opposed (often making Holocaust references in the process).
Everything you wrote and most of what I wrote, in this essay, can be true at the same time.
Thank you for this. While I totally agree that the wish to punish has no usefull place in a better society, nor does reform. If we leave the heirarchies and social systems in place that led to this then it will have been for nought.
Absolutely! The effects don't change until the cause does.
I won't forget nor forgive. I won't keep any animosity either. I choose indifference. Let the sinners suffer the trouble they brought upon them. I was well aware of their sins since the beginning and so I protected myself best. I am okay.
I don't care about amnesty. But if you want to get serious about it, impel the jab maimed to demand justice. Because those are the ones who won't get out of it stronger. Those are in need of a supportive society. We, the "oppressed", are going to be okay, for we are the mavericks.
Dear Barry. Thank you.
POSSIBILITY DISCOVERED - OUR LIFE UNBRIDLED
Seeing beyond our frozen fears and imagined needs lies another realm,
a realm unrivalled.
Seeing beyond our beliefs, opinions and judgements,
of being right and making others wrong, is another state –
a state of wisdom and common sense.
Seeing beyond anger, violence, murder and mayhem –
our inner peace and equanimity reside.
Seeing beyond racism, nationalism, communism, capitalism, socialism – freed of all isms –
we live unhindered by our conditioned minds and hardened hearts.
Seeing beyond acceptance and tolerance is another world –
a world of kindness and understanding.
Seeing beyond theology, philosophy, science and certainty –
a life of openness exists.
Seeing beyond our need for more, better, different –
we discover satisfaction with what we have.
Seeing beyond our alcoholism, drug addiction, gluttony – all forms of self-harm –
we see what is, and wake up.
And yes:
Seeing beyond our crimes, arrests, trials and incarcerations –
a pure heart is beating.
Seeing beyond all conflicts, wars, dominance, and control,
or simply a couple lost in their day-to-day disagreements –
our innate desire for peace remains.
And finally:
Seeing beyond this story, your story, their story – every story ever written or told –
our life is unbridled.
And there, before our lifelong accumulation,
an all-embracing warmth melts the edges of division,
dissolving the illusion of you and me, of them and us.
Our true self revealed – humanity’s innocence understood – the unknown embraced.
This internal, eternal universe is home – is love.
Our mind’s at peace, a new reality seen, a life fulfilled.
A life of decency creating a world of Possibility.
Anonoymous
John, Thank you for pointing us to "possibility!"
lol, wull it's plenty open to many includin' new friends in cyberspace and all human beans who didn't treat me and mine like cock-a-roaches... many've them are STILL on the jabs=good "animal farm" bandwagon... EVEN after all this time!
Thank'ya much Barry... and agreed-- I think the difference is that you're willin' to be more open-hearted to those "good people" that went along with it all... just that one element...whereas I'd like to see'em "make things right" at very least...in some way...constructive not destructive and certainly not Emily-Osterizer style...she offers NO apology or "make right" solution... just a ditsy "let bygones be.." I think she's savin' her own rear and the way she had her kids shout out to others was monstrous...I'd hate to see'em as adults....
As we know, many've the Nazis were "gut" family men... devoted husbands, loving "vaters".... eeeeee! Mob "good fellers" too... I know folks lose their humanity under fear but given that as many as 25% of our nay-shun stayed strong... didn't submit, didn't shun, didn't buy the cons... I know that 25% are bein' gaslit, ignored... but it's this 25% we need to support and worry less'bout fergivin' those that are singin' kumbaya amnesty songs...
If Plandemic 3.0 comes let's see how Miss Emily an' her minions bee-have (bee-hive).... eyes 'r watchin' as this sadly is not the end of these ongoin' plandemics...
Thanks, Daisy. I won't claim to be any more "open-hearted" than you. We could have written our respective essays with a closed or an open heart and you can't always tell from a distance.
To be sure, there are days my heart is closed. If my heart is closed, my point is, I can't be as responsive to the needs of the situation. In my work, I always try and point back to universal mindsets, so even if we can't change the outside today, we can change ourselves.
I don't sense a closed heart in your writing at all. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone.
Choosing between a personal right and wrong mind requires personal responsibility. Liberty and personal responsibility are two sides of the same coin. Most in the USA have closed their eyes and minds while flipping that coin into the States’ wishing fountain.
Brad, Exactly. I have written about this issue several times. Here is one essay: https://fee.org/articles/this-holocaust-survivor-proposed-a-statue-of-responsibility-to-complement-the-statue-of-liberty/
Yes. Thank you. I’ve read Frankl. The West coast Statue of Responsibility would be misconstrued as a public notice of required subservience to generous overlords, maybe.
I once heard that “success” is not getting what you want, it’s realizing what you don’t need.
You are an inspiration Dr. Brownstein. BTW, what were your thoughts when AIER inappropriately removed your piece regarding mandated flu vaccines? It was spot-on.
I appreciate the very kind note, Brad! Thank you.
The AIER has been good to me and except for that flu essay there have been no issues. The flu essay was in the early days of the pandemic when pressures to not knock vaccines were especially strong. The decision was made by a good man who has shined through this crisis. Remember too that my critique of Warp Speed appeared very early in the pandemic at the AIER.
For new readers, the flu essay is now at my Substack: https://mindsetshifts.substack.com/p/how-government-sells-sickness-the
The Warp Speed essay at the AIER: https://www.aier.org/article/why-operation-warp-speed-could-be-deadly/
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people ONLY grasp wrongdoing when they see people get punished. This is what must happen on a grand scale, to those who are responsible for this crime spree. No, it will not indefinitely prevent, by itself, authoritarian actions. But it will leave an indelible impression, for at least a generation or two.
Dave, "Grand scale?" Would you include the endless senior bureaucrats at the FDA and CDC? Or is it better to abolish the administrative state?
I'm not unsympathetic to your sentiment but there is a better way, I believe. And if you say we are not ready for the better way, then I'm afraid "all this will happen again."
Dave, And let's not overlook my point that the free market gives no amnesty. Curiously most libertarians and conservatives have said nothing about vaccine manufactures being not legally liable. For some reason this is a subsidy they seem to love. I've been considering this issue since 1983; back then for nuclear power; another favorite of some libertarians and conservatives.
I agree 100% with your point about the free market and amnesty.
Some libertarians and conservatives complain about the abuse of the liability laws. There may be a basis for these concerns, though with vaccines we have seen what happens when there is not enough liability. So we need sensible liability rules, here and elsewhere.
I think that the rule of law needs to apply. People who have committed crimes need to be held accountable. I would think that this would include some higher-ups at the FDA and the CDC who have committed fraud and whatnot.
I would love to see the FDA and the CDC, along with the rest of the administrative state, abolished, but that is not what I had in mind here. Punish the criminals, including those in industry and elsewhere. This will change public opinion drastically. And then let public opinion take over. If that means getting rid of the FDA and the CDC, then I would love to see it. If it means firing Emily Oster and not giving her outlet for her authoritarian views, that would be wonderful too.
I agree, Dave. For justice to occur, crimes must be punished. But for the last two decades we've seen numerous crimes by political elites that have gone unpunished. When I consider the numbers of these crimes, your term "grand scale" rightly characterizes the magnitude of the punishment that is warranted.
"Forgiveness is a mindset ... we have chosen not to harbor grievances."
This paragraph goes right to the heart of what is important. When we harbor grievances, we harm ourselves, and we tend to act in ways that harm others through a misfocusing of energy. It is easy to misunderstand what forgiveness means. It does not mean forgetting, or letting someone off the hook for righting a wrong, or turning a blind eye to ongoing injustice. It means only letting go of useless mental turmoil.
“We forgive… the fear of others different from ourselves” harkens back to Obama’s top-down (forced) multi-culturalism. Part of the basis for our God-given human liberty is the recognition that all people must be free to associate with others like-minded.
Shiela, I was pointing to the fear that the vaxed expressed towards the unvaxed. Giving up fear is a personal choice and can never be forced